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tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:32 am    Post subject:  

That definition makes faith a pointless word because it fails to distinguish between beliefs based on proveable and generally acknowledged 'facts', and beliefs held for no other reason than wanting to believe them.

Obviously 'facts' are updated all the time, but if you suspect every fact all the time your life and reasoning would be chaotic.

The technology we are using right now is built using facts. If the facts were untrue the technology wouldn't work. and this discussion would be a hallucination. We aren't having it because we have mutual faith in computers, but because the facts on which computers are built are sufficiently reliable to make it work.
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Erebus



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: England

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject:  

Many words in the English language share meanings without distinction!

Yes very chaotic!

Not necessarily, it could just be that we have taken something to be true, that mimics the same effects as is really true. The truth will be shown when someone figures it out and demonstrates the exception that disproves modern "fact" and proves the new theory. (Or demonstrates then figures it out!)
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tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject:  

I want to make a distinction between beliefs based on proveable and generally acknowledged 'facts', and beliefs held for no other reason than wanting to believe them. So I use facts to designate the former and faith to designate the latter. As most other people do likewise, it facilitates communication.

As happened when Einsein 'upgraded' many of the then held facts of physics and whose own discoveries are now being superseded by today's physicists with string theory etc.

Just because they can be improved upon doesn't mean they aren't valid. Look at the things which have been achieved since Einstein. If we waited for the ultimate truth before we gave anything validity, we'd still be eating raw meat in caves.

If a fact, though almost defitely capable of being superseded in the future, is demonstrable and reliable now, I say accept it as it is, exploit it, and let some boffin upgrade it when they get round to it.
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Erebus



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: England

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject:  

I'm not trying to say I don't use what's "known" now, just I don't expect it to stay like it for very long. I also never attempt to justify something by using these theories - I don't like to build my arguments on foundations I'm unsure of.

Einstein didn't just upgrade science, he destroyed many theories entirely!
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tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:17 am    Post subject:  

I agree our knowledge base is being refined and expanded constantly. Quantum physicists are, as a group, making advances toward a unified theory equalling Einstein's contribution, but piecemeal.
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tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject:  

Einstien dispelled the illusions that matter and energy were discreet elements in physics, that time was a constant and that the knowledge of physics was pretty much complete, which was indeed revolutionary.

But the laws of gravity, thermodynamics and so-on were still valid. I don't think he undid much physics, just made a very significant improvement and opened up a new field we're still exploiting.
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area51newmexico



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject:  

This is an interesting article which sheds light onto the evolution process

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6048186.stm

and

http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html
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tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:38 am    Post subject:  

new fossil find:

http://tinyurl.com/vyuw2

it's a fish with arm bones in its fins.
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tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:02 pm    Post subject:  

Evolutionary mutation had been assessed as being about 2% per million years, but that may be about to change. New Zealand researchers have studied fish in two rivers which were one single river 100,000 years ago.

The genetic divergence between the fish suggested mutation of up to 20% per million years, thus implying humans migrated out of Africa much more recently and we have only been around 1/10 of the time previously thought.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1778907.htm#transcript
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tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:02 am    Post subject:  

from the Middle East Times:

Eritrea fossil is missing link in elephant lineage
UPI

November 3, 2006

ANN ARBOR, MI, USA -- A US paleontologist says that the fossil of a pig-sized creature found in East Africa represents the missing link between ancient and modern elephants.

The dating of the new fossil, discovered in Eritrea, to 27 million years ago also pushes the origins of elephants and mastodons 5 million years further into the past than previous records, University of Michigan paleontologist William Sanders said.

The findings by an international team that included Sanders suggest that mastodons and the ancestors of modern elephants originated in Africa, in contrast to mammals such as rhinos that had their origins in Europe and Asia and migrated into Africa.

"In age and anatomy [the newly discovered fossil] is exactly the sort of intermediate evolutionists would expect to bridge the gap between archaic and advanced proboscideans," Sanders said.

In addition to Sanders, the research team included scientists from the University of Asmara in Eritrea; Franklin and Marshall College in Lancaster, PA, USA; the Eritrean ministry of mines and energy; Global Resources in Asmara, Eritrea; the Museum National d'Histoire Naturelle in Paris; the Elephant Research Foundation; the National Museum of Eritrea; and Deutsches Primatenzentrum in Gottingen, Germany.

The research appears in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
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area51newmexico



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject:  

More evidence for evolution....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2455248,00.html

Quote: Neanderthal DNA will help to unlock the secrets of humanity
By Mark Henderson, Science Editor

NEANDERTHAL Man has begun to give up his genetic secrets almost 30,000 years after he last walked the Earth, providing critical insights into the genes that make human beings what they are today.

DNA extracted from a Neanderthal bone has been analysed in detail for the first time and the genetic code of humanity’s closest cousin will be mapped completely within two years, scientists announced yesterday.

The development will allow scientists to compare the human genome with that of our nearest living and extinct relatives — the chimpanzee and the Neanderthal — to tease out the differences between the three. These variations will in turn reveal the genes that make us human.

A gene found only in Homo sapiens, but not in chimps or Neanderthals, must have evolved recently and is therefore solely part of Modern Man’s genetic heritage. Genes that we share with Neanderthals, but not with chimps, will also have played a part in human evolution, but at an earlier stage, before we diverged from our extinct cousins.

“For all the differences we know of between humans and chimps, we will be able to ask: is that a recent change in the human lineage after the separation from Neanderthals, or is it an older one?” said Svante Pääbo, of the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig, Germany, who led the research.

“We can look for evidence of positive selection in language genes after the separation from Neanderthals, and ask which are the biological reasons that made us different from our ancestors.”

Henry Gee, senior editor of Nature, which published Dr Pääbo’s research, said: “We can get a good idea of which changes are unique to humans and which are common to wider human lineages.”

Small amounts of Neanderthal DNA have been sequenced before but Dr Pääbo’s group used new technology to sequence a million Neanderthal DNA base pairs — about 0.03 per cent of the total — taken from a 38,000-year-old fossil found in Croatia, according to reports in Nature.

A second team, led by Edward Rubin, of the US Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, in California, has used a different method to sequence 69,000 base pairs from the same fossil. Its results are published in the journal Science.

The same specimen was used for both studies as it is the only one available that has not been seriously contaminated by human and bacterial DNA.

Dr Rubin said that the work was tantamount to resurrecting Neanderthal Man for science. “We are never going to be able to bring it back to life, but we are going to be able to compare its genome to the human genome,” he said.

With so little of the Neanderthal genome covered so far, neither team has yet hit on a gene that is significantly different from those found in humans. The work has, however, confirmed smaller genetic studies which suggested that humans and Neanderthals never interbred on a significant scale.

“Our data cannot absolutely exclude it, but we see no evidence that pages are being ripped off one genome and being pasted into the other,” Dr Rubin said.

Dr Pääbo’s research dates the evolutionary split between humans and Neanderthals to between 465,000 and 569,000 years ago, with a best guess of 516,000 years ago. Dr Rubin’s estimates are 120,000 years ago to 670,000 years ago, with a best guess of 370,000 years ago.

Professor Chris Stringer, head of human origins at the Natural History Museum, London, said that the achievement promised to transform understanding of Neanderthal biology and human evolution. It would be particularly interesting to look for the microcephalin gene, a contributor to the form of the brain, in Neanderthals as it had been suggested that this was introduced to Homo sapiens quite recently, perhaps through interbreeding with Neanderthals.

GENETIC DIVIDE


Chimpanzees — humanity’s closest living relatives — split from the human branch of our family tree about 6.5 million years ago

Neanderthal man and Homo sapiens evolved from common ancestors of the genus Homo, and separated about 500,000 years ago

The new evidence suggests that humans and Neanderthals never interbred to any significant degree — their genomes look too different for this to be the case

Neanderthals came to dominate Europe and parts of Asia about 130,000 years ago

Anatomically modern humans emerged about 150,000 years ago in Africa

The first evidence of their spread to Europe comes from 36,000 years ago, in Romania

The last Asian Neanderthal fossils are from 50,000 years ago, but the species survived for longer in Europe

In September scientists reported the discovery of the most recent known Neanderthal settlement in Europe, at Gorham’s Cave in Gibraltar, dated to about 28,000 years ago

The species became extinct soon after, probably as a result of climate change and competition with Homo sapiens

I have a question, if all humans descended from Adam & Eve, why do all humans look differently? How can we account for different races, skin colours, heights, hair colours etc???
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tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:06 am    Post subject:  

Very interesting post Helen. The oldest Australian Aboriginal bones have been dated as 50,000 years old.

Re your question, genes mutate and when the mutation aids survival, such as Nordic features in a less sunny climate, the people with such features survive better than those without them and reproduce more successfully.

Other mutations such as red hair don't seem to aid survival but don't seem to hinder it either, so they just sort of hang around in the gene pool.
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I_am_a_Fish



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:22 pm    Post subject:  

I believe that we were created by aliens as a biological weapon. I mean, look at the evidence, for that last god-knows-how-long Humans have destroyed the planet by building cities and roads, massacring animals for no reason (other than to eat) and also we have been chopping down trees at an astounding rate.

Further evidence is found when you discover that over the last 2 million years or so, the X (male) chromosome has shrunk to about half it's size so eventually men will die out and thus the human race will become extinct by itself.

Earth to what ever aliens placed us here is to them the same as those islands in the pacific where we test nuclear weapons are to us.
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area51newmexico



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject:  

I_am_a_Fish wrote: I believe that we were created by aliens as a biological weapon. I mean, look at the evidence, for that last god-knows-how-long Humans have destroyed the planet by building cities and roads, massacring animals for no reason (other than to eat) and also we have been chopping down trees at an astounding rate.

Why create just to destroy?

(Yes I've read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)

I_am_a_Fish wrote: Further evidence is found when you discover that over the last 2 million years or so, the X (male) chromosome has shrunk to about half it's size so eventually men will die out and thus the human race will become extinct by itself.

huh?
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Lamiaceae



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 7651
Location: To the right of my computer

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject:  

area51newmexico wrote:
Why create just to destroy?


That is also a thought that is echoed in the manga for Guyver. Aliens needed a weapon, so they came here to experiment. They first came up with the dinosaurs, take T-Rex for example, as well as other ideas, as we all know they became extinct, due to them not being very adaptable.

So back to the drawing board they went. Obviously, such a weapon would need to reproduce quickly, to fill the fallen, a race that would have no mating season, highly adaptable and of course, to fill their primary role, quite aggressive. Did you know that since the end of WWII, the world has seen 45 minutes of peace? (or something like that)

Enter Man...

However, the aliens still weren't satisfied, and continued working away, enter werewolves and other things of 'mythology'

Eventually, realising what they had created, they fled to the stars.

It was explained better than that in the series, but I hope I've done it some justice.


area51newmexico wrote:
huh?


AHA! - someone else who might actually read my posts!

I think he/she means this
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