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Which Religion are you?
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Black Core



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 474
Location: Gierle (Belgium)

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject:  

hmmmmmmm *thinks*

Satanism isn't really about that, I just explained what I thought of god and satan. Satanism is more about living your life the way you want without hurting other (unless they deserve it).
The most important aspect of Satanism to me is TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. It's a very important part of freedom, I think. When you make a mistake, and you know in your heart that what you did is wrong, you accept it, take responsibility for it, and learn from it. You treat that mistake as a learning experience, and do your best not to repeat it. I see no reason to ask anyone for forgiveness. If I've forgiven myself, and have learned a lesson from it, I can move forward and put it behind me. That is why we don't go to confess something.
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AVARiCE



Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 5780
Location: London, England

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject:  

Got it now, thanks. :)

~ Avarice
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tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:21 pm    Post subject:  

What do Satanists believe about Satan? What does Satan represent, what does he do, what are his powers and limitations and how does he influence people and the universe?
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Black Core



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 474
Location: Gierle (Belgium)

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:41 am    Post subject:  

ok, here is goes

like I explained earlier, he is the relationship between all things, just like god. God an Satan represent the balance between everything. If one of the two would be missing, the relationship would be unhealty and would be funded by wrong feelings.
An example: As a Satanist I believe that one cannot fully love someone without venting your hate in some way. that's where the balance comes in.
Satan doesn't really do anything. That would make him materialised which he is not, he is not made up out of atoms like any other object. He is just an unconcious force so he doesn't really influence anything either.
I think everyone sees Satan as a concious materialised being but that's a personal interpretation. Some Satanists think this too. This is just my thoughts on the matter, don't think that everyone thinks like me.
I know it's hard to understand. I think the closest thing coming to my thoughts on the matter is the Force in the Star Wars movies.
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Kobal



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Nottingham/Hull

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:51 am    Post subject:  

The balance thing is a little Taoist. Ying/yang. U cannot appreciate love without hatred. And the take responsibility for your own actions is something that should be included in pretty much every religion in the world, i really liked that. The 11 rules bit was a little Buffy, but i can see what they are trying to convey.

This is a good point, (and i draw a lot of these from comedians, this may have been one of George Carlin's eloquent points). Everyone on the planet is different. How they look, think, live, all different. So why do we have to have the same spirituality? Why cant our believes and how we reconcile our own existence just be between urselves and god/universe/the sun (pick ur deity)? Most religions have a similar core of morality that most of us live to anyway; its just the furniture that makes it a religion (dont do this, dont wear that, be here on this day, dont eat that stuff etc). One thing ive noticed is that people from the same religion often dont see it in quite the same way. There are several satanist here, and u all have different points and different outlooks.

I do have a question, though. Satanist ceremonies. How, why etc? Is it a spiritual catharsis of some sort, or is it just the done thing among certain groups? Genuinely intrigued :)
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aalpha



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject:  

Kobal wrote: Why cant our believes and how we reconcile our own existence just be between urselves and god/universe/the sun (pick ur deity)?

Because we are not gods. God calls the god shots not us. Except that we have free will and can reject or accept what we choose; to our benefit or our peril but we get to choose.
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Kobal



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Nottingham/Hull

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject:  

Im sory, i dont think i understand your point entirely there, or you have misread mine.

Do you not agree that religion and spirituality is a means of making sense of a big and scary universe? A belief in a god, in a (benevolent?) being who looks out for us, and who knows better than us so that our mistakes are forgiven and that our lives have meaning? If you believe something else, id be intrigued to learn it, honestly :)

Whether or not god exists i dont know, noone does, thats a free choice, as you say. And a persons free choice is not the business of anyone else. It is between the individual and the deity. So i ask again; Why cant our beliefs and how we reconcile our own existence just be between ourselves and the universe/god/etc?
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aalpha



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject:  

Kobal wrote: Do you not agree that religion and spirituality is a means of making sense of a big and scary universe?
No. Faith (religion) and spirituality is something else although "making sense of a big and scary universe may well be one of the results; it's not the purpose or reason for it.

Kobal wrote: A belief in a god, in a (benevolent?) being who looks out for us, and who knows better than us so that our mistakes are forgiven and that our lives have meaning?
No. He clearly does not look out for us in the temporal sense else bad things would not happen to "good" people; i.e. people of faith. Believers have no "free pass." Nor are our mistakes automatically forgiven.

Kobal wrote: If you believe something else, id be intrigued to learn it, honestly :)
Grandma used to say "Be careful what you ask (pray) for, you might get it.:lol:

Kobal wrote: Whether or not god exists i don't know, no one does, thats a free choice, as you say. And a persons free choice is not the business of anyone else. It is between the individual and the deity. So i ask again; Why cant our beliefs and how we reconcile our own existence just be between ourselves and the universe/god/etc?
In the Judeo-Christian tradition the relationship between God and humanity is not suppose to be a private, hidden under a basket phenomenon. People of faith are suppose to be like a city on a hill, seen and recognized from a distance, like a beacon to a safe harbor. Not like the balance in you checking account, i.e. no one's business.
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area51newmexico



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject:  

Kobal wrote: Do you not agree that religion and spirituality is a means of making sense of a big and scary universe? A belief in a god, in a (benevolent?) being who looks out for us, and who knows better than us so that our mistakes are forgiven and that our lives have meaning? If you believe something else, id be intrigued to learn it, honestly

Agreed. One once said, "religion is a cruch for the weak". Humans cannot comphrend the universe and all its glory so the benevolent being simplifies it all.
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Kobal



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Nottingham/Hull

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject:  

What is faith and religion for, in your opinion?

So good people, believers or not, are judged on their merits? So a believer who has done bad will not be sent to paradise, yet a non-believer who has led a good life can? or is faith a prerequesite?

Hehe, grandma was right, but on this occasion i was careful ;) Im not goin to shoot you down, and im enjoying the debate! Better than exam revision, thats for sure. :P

Im not saying its something that u have to keep private and hidden, i just think its something that should not be imposed or judged, ie your own issue, not someone elses.

Beacon to a safe harbour - i like the analogy, and not a way ive thought about it before. Learning another view point, thats y i like these debates :P I guess my understanding of religion in anything other than an academic sense is limited, because ive never believed in a god, and cannot imagine believing in a god. I think of religion as a set of ideas, im afraid.

I am not arguing against a belief in god, if you have a faith then that should be celebrated, shared, discussed in the hope that others will learn something valuable, but i dont agree with organised religion and the absolute belief that one system is correct and above reproach.
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aalpha



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject:  

area51newmexico wrote: Kobal wrote: Do you not agree that religion and spirituality is a means of making sense of a big and scary universe? A belief in a god, in a (benevolent?) being who looks out for us, and who knows better than us so that our mistakes are forgiven and that our lives have meaning? If you believe something else, id be intrigued to learn it, honestly

Agreed. One once said, "religion is a cruch for the weak". Humans cannot comphrend the universe and all its glory so the benevolent being simplifies it all.

If the concept of a benevolent being simplifies all of it why is it so difficult for unbelievers to get their head around it? A case can be made that unbelief is also a crutch for the weak. Last time I checked, people who willing to die for their beliefs were not described as weak.


IRT Salvation and merit. no such combination exists in Chrisianity. Faith alone redeems the believer however faith does generate good deeds. It is not the deeds that redeem but the faith.

IRT organized religion: :pukeright:
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Kobal



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Nottingham/Hull

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:38 pm    Post subject:  

aalpha wrote: A case can be made that unbelief is also a crutch for the weak.

Then make your case :)

aalpha wrote: Last time I checked, people who willing to die for their beliefs were not described as weak.

no, just misguided.

aalpha wrote: IRT Salvation and merit. no such combination exists in Chrisianity. Faith alone redeems the believer however faith does generate good deeds. It is not the deeds that redeem but the faith.

IRT organized religion: :pukeright:

IRT?

Faith also generates bad deeds. Deeds are more important than faith or belief, it is not what we believe but how we live our lives which determines if we are a good person or not. Any suggestion otherwise is suspect - that only through following a particular faith can you avoid punishment for eternity. It fits in nicely with the other great self-protection dogma of the church; that doubting your faith is in itself a sin. What genius!?
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aalpha



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject:  

Kobal wrote: Faith also generates bad deeds. Deeds are more important than faith or belief, it is not what we believe but how we live our lives which determines if we are a good person or not. Any suggestion otherwise is suspect - that only through following a particular faith can you avoid punishment for eternity. It fits in nicely with the other great self-protection dogma of the church; that doubting your faith is in itself a sin. What genius!?

You haven't read much Christian theology. I won't discuss much with anyone who makes it up as they go or the equivalent. Works/good deeds are important, they are not the route to salvation. Even atheists can acknowledge that is the teaching of Christian Theology - if they can be bothered to read it for themselves. The issue is simply not debatable. Oh and it's not faith in a set of ideas or dogma. Do you know what the believer must have faith about? No fair cheating!!! - just answer what you know.

You were speculating on what achieves salvation, not how many motives can we count. Merit is not the way to salvation.

IRT = in reply/response to

IRT - case for a crutch. Don't need to make a case. One blanket statement is as good as another.

I didn't specify which beliefs people die for, religious, political, etc. Are all adherents willing to die for what they believe misguided?

As for doubts, you really must read more. Christianity if full of people who have had gut wrenching doubts including guess who? Jesus Himself. Doubts about faith, the will of God, our specific purpose goes with the territory. Some narrow minded uninformed people may try to put the burden of doubt equals sin on others but it doesn't pass even a cursory inspection of the lives of the leaders of Christianity nor Judeaism.
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area51newmexico



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject:  

aalpha wrote: If the concept of a benevolent being simplifies all of it why is it so difficult for unbelievers to get their head around it? A case can be made that unbelief is also a crutch for the weak. Last time I checked, people who willing to die for their beliefs were not described as weak.

Lol good point. I guess because the universe is not a simple place? Just the same way that a buildings construction is not simple, then the universe just cannot be easy. Its either that or we are thickos?

For me, I find complicated things easier to understand than straight forward things (I always have and I'm not sure why).

No people who die for their beliefs are very brave and committed. I don't know anyone who has personally died in during a war (although my Grandfather faught in Burma in WW2) but they are bloody brave and honourable.
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