Area 51 Forum Index Area 51
Chat & discuss movies, funny crap, aliens & general groovy stuff
 

Which Religion are you?
Click here to go to the original topic
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
       Area 51 Forum Index -> Religion & Philosophy
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:49 am    Post subject:  

Apart from Paul's letters, The New Testament books were written by people who had never met Jesus and there's no proof Paul was really the author of his letters.

At the time of Jesus, the Holy land was controlled by a government which collaborated with the Roman occupation. The Essenes, rebellious Jews who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls, plotted to overthrow the government.

John the Baptist recruited Jesus for the Essenes and he spent his time in the desert receiving instruction from them. He was executed because he was a subversive. He knew his death would be a rallying point for anti-Roman sentiment, but would have been surprised at how successful he was.

Taf
Back to top  
aalpha



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject:  

Faith and gullibility are not synonyms in anybody's thesaurus.

Debates over Paul's authorship by and large revolve around whether it was Paul or one of his pupils. In those days if a pupil could write and put the teacher's name on it with the teacher's blessing it was an honor not a fraud. In order for the teacher to grant that permission the pupil would have to mirror the teacher's views to the point it would make little difference who exactly wrote it. Not sure who you think would have written the New Testament but it wasn't people who needed to have the reality of Jesus "proven" to them. Not sure who all contributed to the New Testament but Paul was the only one who never met him face to face. He wrote, or is named as the author of 14 of the 27 "books" we call the New Testament. oops - now that I think about it Mark may not have known Jesus like Peter did. There is a comment somewhere in the NT that some believe refers to Mark as young lad maybe a teenager as we would say. meh.

I am finally beginning to realize that "there is no proof" is really just another way of saying "I choose not to believe" whatever. If proof ran over the people who wail the most about it they'd still say "that don't prove nothing. . ."
Back to top  
tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:45 am    Post subject:  

Aalpha. Name some proof that God exists. Miracles aren't proof, just anecdote/urban myth. There are claims that Muhammad was associated with miracles, but I don't believe them either.

Faith is saying "I choose to believe what I've been told, in the absence of proof". Everyone has that right, whatever they choose to believe in.
Back to top  
aalpha



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:47 am    Post subject:  

seeeee?
Back to top  
tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:20 am    Post subject:  

aalpha wrote: I am finally beginning to realize that "there is no proof" is really just another way of saying "I choose not to believe" whatever. If proof ran over the people who wail the most about it they'd still say "that don't prove nothing. . ."

If I saw some proof, I would not deny it, I would accept all logical conclusions coming from it I used to believe all one-day cricket tournaments were rigged to be decided in the third match till I saw one that wasn't. Now I don't believe that any more.[/quote]
Back to top  
Ilovearea51



Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 366
Location: In 80 years alone in a hole.

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:16 am    Post subject:  

tafkao wrote: aalpha wrote Quote: I am finally beginning to realize that "there is no proof" is really just another way of saying "I choose not to believe" whatever. If proof ran over the people who wail the most about it they'd still say "that don't prove nothing. . ."

If I saw some proof, I would not deny it, I would accept all logical conclusions coming from it I used to believe all one-day cricket tournaments were rigged to be decided in the third match till I saw one that wasn't. Now I don't believe that any more.

Well we have two sides to our brain, left logical, right, emotional/ect. Taf- do you always listen to your left side??
Back to top  
tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:49 am    Post subject:  

I am very right-brained for a male, hence my creative writing style. When I'm writing, I listen to my right side.

When I'm thinking through an issue which requires rational thought, I listen to me left side.

I'm bi-brained.
Back to top  
aalpha



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject:  

tafkao wrote: aalpha wrote: I am finally beginning to realize that "there is no proof" is really just another way of saying "I choose not to believe" whatever. If proof ran over the people who wail the most about it they'd still say "that don't prove nothing. . ."

If I saw some proof, I would not deny it, I would accept all logical conclusions coming from it I used to believe all one-day cricket tournaments were rigged to be decided in the third match till I saw one that wasn't. Now I don't believe that any more.

I contend you would deny it. You don't want proof. You don't have faith. If you're happy I'm happy. The Pharisees observed the miracles Jesus did and went straight to the devil for the source of Jesus' power instead of beholding the goodness of the miracles and praising God for the good works Jesus did. They saw the things all the rest of you demand and they still refused to believe. So do you. That is what is so tiresome about all of you who require proof. You think you'd know what to do with it but you demonstrate every time you speak (write) that you simply are not going to believe. So why don't you accept your own unbelief and move on?
Here is why demanding proof is so futile. Not one miracle was done to prove who or what Jesus was. Every miracle without exception was a response to faith already being exercised - faith that Jesus was the fulfillment of the promise of a Messiah, that he was the Christ. The believer was already believing when the miracle occurred. One of the many motifs in John is that believing is seeing rather than seeing is believing. Proof, evidence, and faith are in reverse order in Christianity and that is why you will never find your proof and that is why if proof ran over you like a truck you wouldn't recognize it; you don't want to believe therefore you will not be able to see.
Back to top  
tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:18 am    Post subject:  

I've never denied the reality of evidence provided to me on any issue, so why would I make an exception. That's an ad hominem fallacy and you don't know me well enough yet to comment on what I would or wouldn't do in any situation.

You can't be given any evidence because you are an unbeliever. That's a circular argument. I don't have a problem with people having faith-based belief, just with claiming there's evidence to back it up.
Back to top  
aalpha



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:25 am    Post subject:  

I was describing what you and others who demand proof already do. As for me I never use evidence and faith in the same sentence as though they are on the same coin. If you have proof/evidence you don't need faith. And vice versa. Plus when it comes to spiritual matters not all proof or evidence is tangible and can be examined on a table. But it can be shared. :D
Back to top  
*brunettie spenc*



Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 57

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:53 am    Post subject:  

jehovahs witness.... tried to find someone else who was as well but gave up after page 2 :P
Back to top  
whufc88



Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 4408
Location: Calafell, Spain

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject:  

robin williams wrote:

you ever had some religious extremist come up to your at 6am in the morning saying "have you found jesus"? i swear i just feel like answering the door naked and saying "no but come in and help me look"

just had to put that one in :P [/quote]
Back to top  
tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject:  

Ha ha Ham, I'll try to remember that. Most of those folks I get are happy with 'I'm satisfied with my religious convictions thanks'.

Once when I was a teen living with my parents, I had been doing some gardening, and had had a cool drink and was just about to take my machete back out to the shed when the doorbell rang.

"Good morning, wouldn't you like a world without violence?" Having answered the door with a machete in hand, how could I not say no? I had begun arguing the merits of the Allies' violence during WW II, when my older sis tuned in and commented that she was a med student and would be out of a job if not for acts of violence.

You go cold calling and you take your chances on what kind of reception you get, but the guy should never have taken his approx 8 yo daughter along with him. Kids ought to be protected against debating such issues at that age but hey, he brought it to my doorstep and took his kid with him.

Since then I have regarded religious cold callers as unscrupulous and not given them much time.
Back to top  
*brunettie spenc*



Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 57

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:20 am    Post subject:  

tafkao wrote: Ha ha Ham, I'll try to remember that. Most of those folks I get are happy with 'I'm satisfied with my religious convictions thanks'.

Once when I was a teen living with my parents, I had been doing some gardening, and had had a cool drink and was just about to take my machete back out to the shed when the doorbell rang.

"Good morning, wouldn't you like a world without violence?" Having answered the door with a machete in hand, how could I not say no? I had begun arguing the merits of the Allies' violence during WW II, when my older sis tuned in and commented that she was a med student and would be out of a job if not for acts of violence.

You go cold calling and you take your chances on what kind of reception you get, but the guy should never have taken his approx 8 yo daughter along with him. Kids ought to be protected against debating such issues at that age but hey, he brought it to my doorstep and took his kid with him.

Since then I have regarded religious cold callers as unscrupulous and not given them much time.

i guess i am what you would call a "religous cold caller" and we take our children with us (not that i have children yet) because it is our life, such a large part of who we are.. we teach our children by example what it is to be a jehovahs witness in every sense of the word.. if they decide later on down the track they dont like it it is their decision and at least it is an informed one

and the majority of people we meet are not what you call debaters, thats not what we're there for.. we are there to show you a different line of thought, introduce you to our belief... we do so becuase we believe in it so much that we want you all to know about it to though ultimatly it is up to you.. it is the same if you knew some natural disaster was coming, oyu would try and warn not just those you care about but everyone you possibly could..

all i ask is that next time you get a jehovahs witness calling at your door, give them a chance, listen to what they have to say, ask questions... just maybe you might learn something...


xox
Back to top  
tafkao



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 3946

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject:  

I've already heard plenty discussing Mormon's and Jehovah's witnesses' beliefs with them. I don't need to spend time with every new one, just because they haven't personally tried to convert me yet.

I didn't buy my primary school Methodists, I didn't buy evangelical Christianity, I didn't buy the Ananda Margha or Buddhism, though I explored the last two voluntarily.

My grandparents were atheists, my parents were atheists, though my Mum wishes she could believe in God. Both my sisters are Christian, but they both have a spiritual need to fill which I don't have, for which there are valid psychological explanations. One craves love, which the Church gives her, and the other has a need to forgive some terrible wrongs done to her and her faith gives her the strength to forgive. Good for them.

I politely tell cold callers I'm happy with my spiritual arrangements, and they leave without argument or friction. But I don't knock on their doors telling them they really should study mediaeval history because I find it enlightening and fulfilling, or that if they haven't read Anthony Burgess they are missing out on literary revelation.

As for Scientologists etc offering me a free personality test, I say sure thing as long as they buy me a few drinks first. They are never that committed - the money flow is obviously only one-way.
Back to top  
 
       Area 51 Forum Index -> Religion & Philosophy Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 7 of 10