Area 51 Forum Index Area 51
Chat & discuss movies, funny crap, aliens & general groovy stuff
 

Right or Wrong?
Click here to go to the original topic

 
       Area 51 Forum Index -> Polls
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
alienator



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4228
Location: Buckinghamshire

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Right or Wrong?  

I was having a discussion with a family member about training techniques with animals (i.e. dogs & cats). I was always taught to train a cat or dog, you show them wht they have done wrong...for example, if a dog pees on the floor, you rub its nose in it until they learn to go outside...or for cats if they sit on furniture they are not allowed on & have muddy paws, you rub their nose in it to show what thay have done wrong!

I feel this is a fair way to train your pet but my cousin disagreed & classed it as animal cruelty. I can't see how it is animal cruelty as they are not getting hurt in anyway or being bullied.

What are your opinions on this topic?
Back to top  
stalker



Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1622
Location: UK

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:51 am    Post subject:  

Doesn't sound cruel at all, I just wonder if they are clever enough to understand sometimes exactly what they need to do differently..

From what I've seen on TV dog shows (i'm no expert) it might be better to reward an animal when it is good, than to tell it off when it is bad - sounds like they might learn quickly this way..

But for more independent animals like cats, i quite like the look of non harmful devices like www.scatmat.com - not cruel, but they learn they dont like sitting on certain things..
Back to top  
alienator



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4228
Location: Buckinghamshire

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject:  

stalker wrote: Doesn't sound cruel at all, I just wonder if they are clever enough to understand sometimes exactly what they need to do differently..

From what I've seen on TV dog shows (i'm no expert) it might be better to reward an animal when it is good, than to tell it off when it is bad - sounds like they might learn quickly this way..

But for more independent animals like cats, i quite like the look of non harmful devices like www.scatmat.com - not cruel, but they learn they dont like sitting on certain things..

We have tried the rewarding technique with our cats but it has never worked. The only way they seem to learn is to be shown what they have done wrong & kicked outside for the day.

I also like the idea of a www.scatmat.com to train pets...shame its so expensive!
Back to top  
stalker



Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1622
Location: UK

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:57 am    Post subject:  

i would expect rewards work better with dogs
Back to top  
alienator



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4228
Location: Buckinghamshire

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject:  

stalker wrote: i would expect rewards work better with dogs

Yeh I agree with that but also I think, how will a pet know its been naughty if your only rewarding when its been good. I mean with cats...a dog is so much easier to train using the rewarding technique.
Back to top  
stalker



Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1622
Location: UK

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject:  

i think telling them off when they are naughty works best at the time of the offence if that makes sense..

like your cats for example - they are not supposed to go on the sofa, so if you see them jump up, you can immediately remove them and they will sense you don't want them to be there..

But if you can see they have been there like maybe an hour ago as they have left footprints, I kinda wonder if even though you express you are annoyed, and show them the mud, whether they are actually intelligent enough to associate the two events together?

So that's why I am in favour of electric shocks... ooo and lasers :twisted:
Back to top  
area51newmexico



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject:  

Very good question.

I'm no dog expert but I know a thing or two about cats. Basically, they are difficult to train! When I got my cats, they already knew how to use a litter tray (good as they were only 6 weeks old!). I tried to stop them from scratching the furniture but never succeeded (we bought a stratching post and we used to shout at them when the stratched the furniture).

A friend of mine's dog used to peed where it shouldn't. They used the 'rub its nose in it' method but that didn't work either:P
Back to top  
alienator



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4228
Location: Buckinghamshire

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:43 pm    Post subject:  

area51newmexico wrote: Very good question.

I'm no dog expert but I know a thing or two about cats. Basically, they are difficult to train! When I got my cats, they already knew how to use a litter tray (good as they were only 6 weeks old!). I tried to stop them from scratching the furniture but never succeeded (we bought a stratching post and we used to shout at them when the stratched the furniture).

A friend of mine's dog used to peed where it shouldn't. They used the 'rub its nose in it' method but that didn't work either:P

Our cats use to use a litter tray but we (with the help of Stu's mum) trained them to go outside. So no more litter tray :) Shouting at our cats has never worked. The only way the will stop doing thingss they shouldn't do is to show them what they have done wrong...i usually take them to what they have wrong done, point at it & shout at them & kick them out & lock their door. For ages they stopped going on the sofas...trouble is they don't like their beds being washed so they get on my nerves by being naughty.
Back to top  
stalker



Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1622
Location: UK

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:50 pm    Post subject:  

alienator wrote: they don't like their beds being washed...

yeh - probs they like their scent to feel at home or something :)
Back to top  
alienator



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4228
Location: Buckinghamshire

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:04 pm    Post subject:  

stalker wrote: i think telling them off when they are naughty works best at the time of the offence if that makes sense..

like your cats for example - they are not supposed to go on the sofa, so if you see them jump up, you can immediately remove them and they will sense you don't want them to be there..

But if you can see they have been there like maybe an hour ago as they have left footprints, I kinda wonder if even though you express you are annoyed, and show them the mud, whether they are actually intelligent enough to associate the two events together?

So that's why I am in favour of electric shocks... ooo and lasers :twisted:

I have always showed the cats what they have done wrong even if it did happen like an hour ago & they must of understood something because they never went on the sofa for ages & also never attempt to whilst we are sitting there. The cats are playing up because i have washed their beds & they don't like it but sorry not going to put up with the smell of rain & mud...lol

Also may I point out, I am not a cat lover when it comes to pets....if they are somebody elses then i like them...lol
Back to top  
stalker



Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1622
Location: UK

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:08 pm    Post subject:  

alienator wrote: ...even if it did happen like an hour ago & they must of understood something because they never went on the sofa for ages

sounds like they understood then :)
Back to top  
Vagilik



Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Posts: 494
Location: Las Vegas, NV United States

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject:  

Society is fucked thats all i gotta say. rubbing noses in mistakes abuse? thats like saying putting hot sauce in a kids mouth or washing it out with soap is abuse.......people get arrested for the stupidest shit nowadays. and look how kids are growing up...no discipline and theres more dropouts then ever because parents are afraid to be a "parent." I cant express my frustration enough and please excuse my language....thats all
Back to top  
aalpha



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:00 pm    Post subject:  

As for training cats Helen is right. In fact it's more likely they train you. IMHO the best way to train a dog - and I admit it's the most difficult - is to be on duty and be ready to scoop him up and go outside the minute he shows signs of getting ready to pee or poop.

As for rubbing their nose in it - our parents didn't make us wear dirty diapers on our head like bonnets. That's all I'm gonna say. . . .
Back to top  
 
       Area 51 Forum Index -> Polls
Page 1 of 1