Area 51 Area 51 Forum Index FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Profile Register Log in to check your private messages Log in
Refi

Bookmark this site!
Lets go to the Polls!

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Area 51 Forum Index -> Current Events
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
area51newmexico
Goddess
Goddess


Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Lets go to the Polls! Reply with quote

Today, 5th May, the UK goes to the polls to decide if we want to keep our current system 'first past the post' or change to 'alternative vote' system.

Many people are confused about what AV actually is but it's actually quite simple (with the help of BBC!) Watch this little display:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12892836

I reckon it's bollock anyway:)

But what would you prefer: AV or traditional system?
_________________
Helen, the Administratrix of www.area51newmexico.com

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stalker
Forum Champion


Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1622
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've voted "no" - seems like a half measure to me, so would rather stick with the existing system.. at least with the current way, the person that the most people wanted the most wins!

I'd kinda worry that AV basically lets far more game playing - the people who want to vote for fringe minorities kind of get multiple votes, but those who want to stick with for example their current candidate who is popular then only get one vote in real terms. - I could see things going mad with tacticle voting, then letting loonies run the country lol
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aalpha
Nicest Guy In The Universe/Site Admin
Nicest Guy In The Universe/Site Admin


Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with stalker even tho I'm not in the UK. With the AV method, candidates acquire votes that were cast for other candidates.

If I don't want Party A then my vote for Party C should be lost if C doesn't win, not go to someone I can't stand.

Bill Clinton won one of his elections with only 43% of the popular vote. Thanks to a third party candidate who kept either of the two main parties from winning with 51% or better margin.

I'm still stuck on how to apply the grammar and syntax "first past the post." What is the "post"? I think I'll get what it means to get "past" it once I know what "it" is.

Definitely vote ---NO!!-- on AV.
_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
area51newmexico
Goddess
Goddess


Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stalker wrote:
I'd kinda worry that AV basically lets far more game playing -


I reckon it would require strategic voting! If you wanted Mr B to win, you'd kinda have to put another name as your first choice (someone who you knew would not have a cat in hells chance of winning), Mr B as your second choice?!

aalpha wrote:
I'm still stuck on how to apply the grammar and syntax "first past the post." What is the "post"? I think I'll get what it means to get "past" it once I know what "it" is.


I wondered that too. 'first past the post' is a phrase with has been banded about on TV alot.

UKers - correct me if I'm wrong but currently candidates do not need to have a certain % of the vote to win, just the most? E.g. a person could gain only 30% the vote but still win. The remaining 70% of votes could be spread out over the other 5 or more candidates (we can often vote between many many candidates. On my last European election, there was 21 candidates!)
_________________
Helen, the Administratrix of www.area51newmexico.com

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stalker
Forum Champion


Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1622
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aalpha wrote:
I'm still stuck on how to apply the grammar and syntax "first past the post." What is the "post"? I think I'll get what it means to get "past" it once I know what "it" is.


"First Past The Post" is actually from Horse Racing! there is a post at the finishing line, first horse to get to the finish wins! - it actually doesn't make sense really for our election system as there is no line to get to, in UK politics it just means the person who gets the most votes in that constituency wins and becomes a MP (you can win by 1 vote, you don't have to have a set size majority)..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lamiaceae
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 7651
Location: To the right of my computer

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too voted no. I didn't like the sounds of my vote going to someone who I didn't like.

Far too many 'behind closed doors' deals and greasy handshakes could of been made without the input of the public which would of made a mockery of democracy in my opinion.

Also, Peter Mandelson was all for it, and anything he wants is usually bad for Britain so on the strength of that I voted no alone.
_________________
I should update my sig. What to put here for $CurrentYear ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
aalpha
Nicest Guy In The Universe/Site Admin
Nicest Guy In The Universe/Site Admin


Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 8399
Location: Where ever you need me I'll be there. Whatever you need done I'll do it. Made in the USA.

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stalker wrote:
aalpha wrote:
I'm still stuck on how to apply the grammar and syntax "first past the post." What is the "post"? I think I'll get what it means to get "past" it once I know what "it" is.


"First Past The Post" is actually from Horse Racing! there is a post at the finishing line, first horse to get to the finish wins! - it actually doesn't make sense really for our election system as there is no line to get to, in UK politics it just means the person who gets the most votes in that constituency wins and becomes a MP (you can win by 1 vote, you don't have to have a set size majority)..


I was afraid of that. Another misapplied concept. Check this out.

Here's what drives me nuts about the USA's elections. For some years now early voting has become popular where voters can vote 1 to 2 weeks (maybe more?) before election day. The news media refer to the polling sites as "one stop voting" places, stations, whutevvva. . .

My bitch is when has there ever been multiple voting sites for any election early or on election day? The answer is NEVER!!!!

so who's the moron that came up with one stop?

I'm shaking now, I have to go eat some chocolate. . . . Exclamation Question Exclamation
_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
area51newmexico
Goddess
Goddess


Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lamiaceae wrote:
I too voted no. I didn't like the sounds of my vote going to someone who I didn't like.


If you don't like them, don't put them as you're 2nd/3rd/4th choice votes then:)

aalpha wrote:
Here's what drives me nuts about the USA's elections. For some years now early voting has become popular where voters can vote 1 to 2 weeks (maybe more?) before election day. The news media refer to the polling sites as "one stop voting" places, stations, whutevvva. . .

My bitch is when has there ever been multiple voting sites for any election early or on election day? The answer is NEVER!!!!

so who's the moron that came up with one stop?


We have 'postal votes'. If you are unable to get to the voting place, you can elect to have your vote sent in via post.
_________________
Helen, the Administratrix of www.area51newmexico.com

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lamiaceae
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 7651
Location: To the right of my computer

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

area51newmexico wrote:

If you don't like them, don't put them as you're 2nd/3rd/4th choice votes then:)


So what's the difference between putting a 1 in a box as opposed to a X ?

Also, if my favourite candidate doesn't get through, isn't my candidate dropped from the runnings and my vote re-assigned to someone else?

I still stand by my thought that if Peter Mandelson wanted it, it's bad for Britain. Very Happy
_________________
I should update my sig. What to put here for $CurrentYear ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
area51newmexico
Goddess
Goddess


Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lamiaceae wrote:
area51newmexico wrote:

If you don't like them, don't put them as you're 2nd/3rd/4th choice votes then:)

So what's the difference between putting a 1 in a box as opposed to a X ?


I think under AV you would put a number 1/2/3 etc in the box rather than the X which you do now.

Lamiaceae wrote:
Also, if my favourite candidate doesn't get through, isn't my candidate dropped from the runnings and my vote re-assigned to someone else?


Your vote is only re-assigned to another candidate if you actually select your second choice.
_________________
Helen, the Administratrix of www.area51newmexico.com

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rach
Site Administrator
Site Administrator


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 1056
Location: Middle of nowhere in England

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13305738 - this is the best argument for AV that there is. The election results for Bury Council were tied, so they just drew lots for who got to be councillor. At least under AV, they would take into account people's second choices and even third etc choices until one of the two tied candidates actually won the election! How could AV be less democratic than what we have now?!?!
_________________
~~~I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minuite of it!~~~

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
area51newmexico
Goddess
Goddess


Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 10598
Location: East Yorkshire, England

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Rach

Crazy talk! Drawing straws!

Your example just goes to show that individual votes do make a difference. I've heard a lot of people say 'I can't be bothered to vote, my vote wont count'. Turns out, it can do!
_________________
Helen, the Administratrix of www.area51newmexico.com

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Area 51 Forum Index -> Current Events All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Effex-Media Web Resources
Design by SkaidonDesigns | Distributed by Olate
 
Create your own free forum now!
Terms of Service Purchase Ad Removal Forum Archive Report Abuse